Steve Ehrlich on The Blockchain Interviews with Dan Weiskopf

Intro Vocals [00:00:02] You’re watching the block chain interviews posted by Dan Weiskopf. Each episode features interviews with leading industry experts so that viewers can have a deeper understanding of today’s quickly evolving blockchain marketplace. Dan Weiskopf [00:00:21] Thrilled today to have Steve Ehrlich, CEO of Voyager Digital, on our show today, he’s also the former CEO of E-Trade Professional Trading. So thank you, Steve, for being on The Blockchain Interview series. Steve Ehrlich [00:00:36] Oh, thanks for having me. Appreciate talking to you. I always look forward to when you and I get to speak. Dan Weiskopf [00:00:42] Yes, Steve, I feel like we have known each other for decades. And really in 2018, I think it was through KCSA, introduced us to this little company with 20 million dollars in market value. Right. And we had a great conversation and today you’ve got 2.6, 2.7 Billion of market cap, millions of customers. My question to you is, you’ve had a long, successful career. You know, think through a little bit on how the pieces have come together to get to this point because, you know, frankly, that probably helps you in the hiring, too, of people. Steve Ehrlich [00:01:25] Oh, and yeah, we did meet, it was ‘18, it was that I was pitching you on the idea. And I’m sure, you know, we never talked about it, but I’m sure you, like many others, were like, this guy’s nuts like what does he think he’s going to be able to build. Like there’s some pretty big companies out there in this space and he must be nuts. I think me being somewhat nuts anyway is what got us here and it truly is. This is probably the most fun I’ve ever had in my entire career. And not just because we’ve gone from 20 million to almost 3 billion. You know, it’s the most fun because it’s creating something new. And I’ve learned so much from my experience in public accounting, my experience at ETrade and running a unit with an ETrade, which had three thousand people at the time to running my own broker at Lightspeed. And you learn so much from all that. And it’s all the things I didn’t do right in those experiences that are making this one so much more viable and able to do what we’re doing. Like how you manage people learning about personalities in a big company, how to navigate, and then the small company, how to keep people motivated and excited in a smaller environment with lots of acquisitions, all those things have really help get where we are today. Because I always had this philosophy. I say to our employees, we all should learn a lot more from our mistakes than we do from our successes. And I never, ever really care when someone makes a mistake, when they’re trying to be creative and do something. My comment is that we just don’t make the same mistake twice. And so I think that’s what’s made this so successful and so much fun for me, because everything I didn’t do right for the last twenty five years in my other job, that’s what we’ve been able to do today and really build something exciting and have great partners. And I think great partners, great investors, great community. That makes it a lot more fun so… Dan Weiskopf [00:03:23] And you’ve created a culture that fosters appropriate risk taking and the willingness to pivot as things change. Steve Ehrlich [00:03:34] That’s and that’s one of the things I think that I definitely learned from my time at Lightspeed. We were deep into active trading, direct active trading, focused on professional trading. And when the market started to turn and get less active, I mean, there was a time, 2008, ‘07-’08, we were doing 12 billion shares a day in the market. Now, that seems probably light compared to some of what we’ve seen lately, but that was a lot. And you know what started dipping you know, I don’t think we pivoted fast enough. And now that’s one of the things here, when we saw an opportunity to get into a yield, an earn, and we went for it right away, rather than trying to think it through ad nauseum, really, to make those changes. And those are just the things you learn is how to see where the business is going, you know, analyze the morale and what your customers are thinking, and then try to figure out what they want because it all comes down in the end to what are customers going to buy? We just saw that, I guess that last night was the first game of Field of Dreams, baseball and the Yankees and White Sox. And I always use that to because, like, you don’t build something, hoping they come. That’s how we started and you got to build what customers actually want. Dan Weiskopf [00:04:47] Yeah. Yeah. And what you’ve done is amazing. And as demonstrated, as an illustration of that is the fact that your customers go back to your platform every day, what, like seven, eight, nine times? Steve Ehrlich [00:05:05] The data we have shows there on the platform 8 to 12 times every single day. Now it’s probably slightly less because I’m probably on 250 times a day so I throw the average off, but it is, it’s on average about 8 to 12 times a day our customer is on the app. Dan Weiskopf [00:05:23] Yeah. So what an opportunity that is, right. That your customers are engaged. Now, they may be checking the price more than anything else. Steve Ehrlich [00:05:32] That’s fine. Dan Weiskopf [00:05:34] Yeah, that’s fine. You know, where do you see that opportunity going? Meaning A: Who are your customers? What type they are. Are you looking, also, at small businesses? They may not be checking their accounts like that on a regular basis, but where do you see that kind of engagement and how do you capitalize on it? Steve Ehrlich [00:05:55] Yeah, there’s a few different avenues for that. First is, you know, the fact that they’re on the app so much means when we bring the debit card, they’re ready to use the debit card. They’re like, OK, here’s another way I can be engaged with my cryptocurrency and with Voyager? So that’s definitely one way. We’re also looking forward. And obviously, you know, we’ve been saying this for a while. We announced the partnership in the JV with Market Rebellion and we’ll bring stock trading, too, to the platform with USDC as your base currency to execute the trades from, so more engagement. And then when you start thinking about it, what our customers, there’s other products that they want that were on our roadmap. Our existing customers want retirement accounts. But, then, what we found out from talking to a lot of them, and one of the reasons for the Coinify acquisition, was a lot of our customers are small to mid-sized business owners and they feel really neglected by banks. And they’re coming to us in droves now and saying we want payments in USDC and we want to hold some of our USDC, our cash and our Bitcoin and build Treasury on your platform because you know how to treat customers. We have great, you know, you treat us great and we want to expand the relationship. So that probably means more engagement only because those small to midsize business owners will have accounts with us and they’ll be looking at both their accounts and always with the small, small to midsize business understanding their Treasury position. So really we think that the engagement is going to go up. We hired a data analyst, Head of Data, Akbar Ladhani, out of Uber, and we’ve got so many more ideas on how to bring intelligent information to consumers so that they can utilize the platform even more. Dan Weiskopf [00:07:37] Yeah, some of them are probably in the gig economy, which we love as a firm. And so, is it—I may be getting ahead of myself on this. I mean, your business model is evolving on a constant basis. I mean, could we be seeing at some point five years out you doing real estate transactions or mortgages or anything like that? Steve Ehrlich [00:08:03] We expect to actually, because as people start building their crypto portfolios, we see a tremendous opportunity to execute loans, collateralized loans, lending money, credit cards, mortgages, because we really, truly believe that we’re still in the early stages of the crypto adoption. Consumers are on the app. They’re engaged. We’ll get more in there and we’re going to become their financial lifestyle app. So that’s where they’re going to come to do everything and, you know, this vision actually isn’t uncommon. And the first time I ever heard something about this was back in the early 2000s at ETrade when I was there, when I heard the CEO of Christos Cotsakos actually talk about that for ETrade. Now, they got a little away from that when they bought the bank and they got into a different avenue and never finished that vision, which I think they’ll probably start doing more, maybe more in the Morgan Stanley umbrella. But that’s where the whole vision, like, I match up a lot to what was done in the past and how we can make things better and more efficient for consumers through crypto. So we absolutely think that there’s no doubt over five years we’ll be doing mortgages and sooner than that on collateralized loans and credit cards. There’s no doubt, we want to be part of everybody’s life and help them create wealth through the crypto and digital economy. Dan Weiskopf [00:09:26] Cool, cool. We can talk later offline on some ideas I have. Um, so this-. Steve Ehrlich [00:09:32] I love ideas, you know. Dan Weiskopf [00:09:33] I know. Steve Ehrlich [00:09:34] Because you’re like, how about that? Yeah, I love it and I think that’s the beauty of our culture and our company is that this is something new is coming and I don’t have all the answers. And, and boy, I say it all the time on different podcasts and interviews. We make mistakes. You know, it’s how you react from those mistakes and people who are smarter than me giving, you know, coming in and saying, hey, what do you think about this? That’s how we’re going to get better. You know, I don’t learn a lot from just thinking I have all the answers. I learn a lot from waking up at six o’clock every morning reading, speaking to smart guys like you and you guys saying, like, hey, have you looked at this? And it’s like, oh, that’s interesting, let me do some more, you know, that’s how we’re going to get better. It’s not from one guy sitting here saying, here’s what we’re going to do. It doesn’t work that way. Dan Weiskopf [00:10:16] Yeah, there are a lot of folks from the ETF industry, right, who’ve made that pivot to the blockchain. And, you know, I’m one of them, I suppose, although I’m on both sides. And I think there are certain people who are early adopters and that’s just a human nature thing. And so I’m known for always talking about how structure matters and people laugh at me about that. But, so, I’m going to ask you a bunch of “structure matters” questions and I love to keep this like a rapid fire as much as possible. So here they go. OK, so how does your firm optimize the Wild West of exchanges for your clients? That’s the first one. Steve Ehrlich [00:10:59] Yeah, we’re connected to growing now, probably over 12, 13 different exchanges, market makers, custodians, all to maximize liquidity for consumers. And it’s like the old school equity smart order router. We’re doing the same thing for retail consumers and we keep to the retail consumers. We’re not trying to be the institutional arm for people because of the lower volume of lower cost per each trade. The average cost per trade, volume for trade is less for retail. So we’ve maximized it by—we keep getting market makers. And if you’re a market maker listening, give us a call. We always try to get more market makers into our wheel and exchanges to make sure we can get this huge deep pool of liquidity. Dan Weiskopf [00:11:46] Second question, is it true the customers own the crypto, specifically Bitcoin and Ethereum on your platform, where that’s not necessarily the case on other platforms? Steve Ehrlich [00:12:00] Yeah, they absolutely own it, they can take it off the platform any time they want and bring it into their own personal wallets. A lot of customers want us to hold it for them. And we have—everybody who brings crypto into us as a specified wallet address for them. But if you want to take it out to your own personal wallet, let’s say you have a Trezor or a Ledger or you were using some other app or wallet app. Yeah, you could take it any time you want. Now we have limits on withdrawals, and that’s for customer safety and protection. But you can take anything off whenever you want. You know, no questions asked. Dan Weiskopf [00:12:33] And you’re being polite. Now, that’s not the case for every platform, but it is the case for yours. Steve Ehrlich [00:12:37] To differentiate. Dan Weiskopf [00:12:40] Yeah, no. So, next question. How does your firm protect customers from lost coins on your platform? Steve Ehrlich [00:12:50] Yeah, well, it’s why I think our model sets us apart from others, too, is, you know, we actually execute through multiple exchanges and market makers, liquidity providers. But our custodianship is a combination of hot, cold, you know, some hot, obviously, so we can effectually trade at a moment’s notice, but on the cold side, we’re using multiple custodians. We have like four or five custodians for all the coins because we’re not comfortable keeping everything in one place. Plus some custodians don’t have certain coins while others do. But we kind of spread it around. We think that’s—and then on top of that, we think we have one of the best security teams around, led by our head of security who came over from Penn Med, Dan Constantino, you know, ex military. We always think that those military guys know a lot about security. And so we think we have a top notch team on that as well. Dan Weiskopf [00:13:41] OK, so, yeah, I’m not sure how to do this without getting hypertechnical, but how do you explain the mechanics of how people get yield, will, say, on Bitcoin and Ethereum and other coins, and what might those yields be? Steve Ehrlich [00:13:58] Yes, so for us to generate yield, we give consumers yield on 30 odd coins and some of the way we generate yield, we give them that yield, is staking. Some we lend out to big, big parties like public companies like Galaxy Digital or BIDGO or work with Anchorage on some of that. A lot of it is now starting to be even more collateralized on that side. But the other part of how we give yield is—it’s a marketing expense to us. So we look at it as a great form of marketing for us. We’ve got a vibrant trading business that allows us to use some of what we make there to give people yield as well, because we’ve seen our assets grow substantially now as the markets kind of picked up. We’ve seen more, you know, the assets grow, obviously, but even through the kind of quiet time of, like, June, July, we saw net assets coming on the platform every day. And it’s because of the yield. And we look at that yield as those three ways, staking, some lending and then just marketing. And we look at the whole package as a marketing thing for us, like how do we get more consumers into the ecosystem? Dan Weiskopf [00:15:04] So I think you kind of answered the question on counterparty risk. So, as a different question along the same lines, you know, hypothetically, let’s say I’ve got an account at a major brokerage firm. It’s on margin. I own equities. I’m not voting my proxy, but, hey, listen, you know, it’s on margin, but I’ve got the cash, OK? To me, sometimes people forget that equities give you a feel of ownership of the company, but the reality is they’re kind of a derivative type of security, in my mind, at least a little bit. So my question is really, it’s on margin. I’m not leverage. I’m sitting on cash. Do you envision, ever, a situation where some of these large brokerage firms are going to have to give yield on that benefit that they are, in fact, receiving? Steve Ehrlich [00:16:03] Well, look, I think it’s your first point about when you’re owning stock through a large broker dealer, it’s always held in street name. Yes, the broker dealer goes back and you have a right to vote it, but your votes don’t mean much when you’re a few hundred shareholder on an Apple and so forth. So it doesn’t really even matter. You have a right, but it’s immaterial. But I do think we both remember the time where brokers used to give you money on your free credit and your free cash sitting in there in the account. And it’s kind of interesting because I think the time, and we’re going to change this, this is part of what we’re working on with our stock platform, with John and Pete and Jerian, is getting yield for consumers on the cash side when they’re sitting with cash. In our instance, it’s going to be USDC coin, because today the brokers are using that cash to fund those margin balances. So they’re making six, seven, eight percent on your cash. Now, that just doesn’t seem right. It’s like banks give you zero percent and they’re lending it out, making 8 to 10 percent. The brokers do the exact same thing. And so we think that model is going to change. And that’s why, long term, decentralized finance, even in the stock world, is going to happen, because when you’re sitting with cash, it’s your cash. If you want to use it and lend it to somebody, that’s your prerogative. But when the brokers do it today, it kind of flies under the radar because nobody really understands the inner workings of how brokers work. You have to be in the business and understand it. But there was a time brokers used to pay three, four or five percent on cash. Now it’s obviously zero. So, yes, I think we’re going to get to that point. We’re going to help make that change. Dan Weiskopf [00:17:46] Well, I mean, we’ve got a situation as an example with GameStop or AMC where there’s a short squeeze and people don’t realize this, but you know that loan value is huge and, thank you, Mr. broker for keeping the yield from me. Steve Ehrlich [00:18:04] Yeah. And as we were talking about earlier, before we jump on is that the brokers are taking that GameStop stock. They’re lending it out at these neg rates, and that’s, what they call “neg rates”, and they’re enormous and they’re pocketing all that money. They’re not giving it back to the consumer. It’s the consumer’s stock! It’s like, it’s your stock. If you want it to be lent out, you should be making something on it. That’s got to change, too. And I think, you know, there’s real money to be made in the sharing if you decide to have your stock loaned out. Now, if you’re smart, you can go to your brokers and you can request and say, I do not want my stock lent out. And you can say if I want my stock to be lent, if you’re going to lend my stock, I want to make something on it, especially in a cash account. And I do that all the time in my stock trading. Do not lend my stock out, especially my own stock in Voyager. You’re not lending that stock out. Frankly, I’ve seen that. I’ve seen that happen, too. But it’s like you’re not lending my stock out because no one realizes once it’s in the possession, even fully paid stock today, brokers will lend that out. So you, because of all the customer agreements, and I implore everybody to read the customer agreements and some of the biggest online brokers, that they’ll lend it out. And it’s your stock. And that’s what the whole thing about crypto having lived in this world for 27 years now, is that that’s why I get so excited about where we’re going, because it’s power back to the people. That’s what scares the heck out of the big companies and the government. It’s the power back to the people, Dan Weiskopf [00:19:42] By the way, even if you’re not on margin, even if it’s straight cash. Right. That’s the amazing part. Steve Ehrlich [00:19:50] Yes. Go look at your customer agreements. If you’re at some of the largest corresponding clearing firms or that other company that went public not that long ago. Dan Weiskopf [00:20:00] We won’t go to naming anybody. So one of the other things that was, frankly, genius about what you’ve done is creating the Voyager coin. Right. Walk me through how that’s evolved, because it’s made a lot of people, frankly, very wealthy, which is wonderful. Right? Steve Ehrlich [00:20:26] We’re excited by that token. It’s really core to everything we do and we talk about how, as a company, we work for core constituencies, investors, token holders, employees and customers, and customers may or may not hold the token. They may or may not own the stock. That’s ok, and again, their prerogative, their money, they can do what they want. Our job is just to help them effectuate that. But the token itself has helped us build such a diehard community of people that love our platform, love the community. We have a rewards program that launches September 1st that gives people a lot of rewards for holding the token in different levels, very similar to airline miles or hotel points or coffee shop points. You can get all these extra benefits, that’s—maybe some even beer coming with that at some point in time. So it’s really built this community, and this community, it took a long time, like when we bought the Zethos company, which is our protocol for deposits, withdrawals on October 19, that’s when we got the token. Token was at like three or four cents and didn’t really have a deep community aspect to it. We had a really—it took time to build that up. And now it’s so impactful. You got social media, especially Twitter, and I think all sorts of other Discord channels and so forth, Telegram, that they help us grow our business. And they—not only do they help us grow our business through all the organic referrals they get our way, but they tell us when we’re doing something wrong or they give us ideas because they’re so in tune with what’s going on in other customer sentiment. It’s been great for the business. It’s been—and fortunately for those who hold the token, the tokens open up quite a bit lately. And I think as we keep building more and more consumers on it, and more product, you know, there’s a lot of life in that token. Dan Weiskopf [00:22:17] But it’s created further alignment with your customers. It’s also lowered your marketing cost, right? Because in certain cases, maybe you’ve used the token to incentivize somebody to help you market, right? And on a go forward basis, it’s even becoming more liquid, so becoming potentially more interesting. Steve Ehrlich [00:22:45] It’s all three of those, right? I think we do use it as a marketing, that’s the main purpose of the token, and we have a swap that would be finished by a week from today. And that gives us even more tokens to use as marketing tools for consumers. So we’re really excited by that 40 million tokens after the swap that we get to use to incentivize consumers again to use the platform, make intros, make referrals. But that community does and has built such a loyal following around it, it’s made things easier for us to actually continue to grow. And we’re excited by what we think that can happen from that, too. And you’re right, the liquidity for consumers is..imagine if, and I think we’ll get there, I think, imagine if you’re—I have like 1.5 Million Marriott points. Imagine if your Marriott points are actually able to be turned into real cash and where you can trade it to a friend who can use those points to get a hotel room or a vacation, they become more valuable and you build loyalty to it. So I think over time, airlines, hotels, coffee shops will tokenize their rewards programs because it helps build that community. And I think that’s the number one thing that I look at when I hear all the stuff going on in the government and all that, it’s like I’m not sure the government understands where cryptocurrency is taking community and it’s—and people banding together for a common purpose. And that’s what’s happening. And it’s happening right in front of all our eyes. And I know what’s happening on Voyager because the rewards program and everything we have is really showing it front and center. Dan Weiskopf [00:24:31] I’ve got some ideas for you on that. I’ll take that offline as well. So a hard question that I want to throw at you, and it’s awkward a little bit. Customer support is something that you are so focused on, you know, and I think you’ve made it clear that you want to be the number one platform in terms of customer support. Where do you stand in terms of actually having an 800 number? Steve Ehrlich [00:25:05] So it is one of our key things we’re focusing on. Before I got on with you, I was with my CTO, with Dan and with our head of service, Shannon, and going through stuff because we’re getting closer and closer to improving. We’re improving every day, but getting to where we’ll have live chats and phone based service. There’s no doubt by the end of the year we will have it. We’ll have VIP logs based upon your level of assets, your level of token holding level of volume you do. And it’s building it all together to make sure that we can serve the customers appropriately and make sure we handle that all right. So we’re working on all those channels. By the end of the year, we’re going to, we think will be a well oiled machine. But you’re going to see significant improvements over the next four to six weeks if you haven’t already. And I think the service has actually gotten quite much better over the last four to six weeks. It’s a point of emphasis for us and you’ll see even more strides made in the next four to six. Dan Weiskopf [00:26:05] Thanks, Steve. And by the way, that’s not to suggest that anybody complained, it was more—no, I mean, you’re dealing with people’s money, right? Steve Ehrlich [00:26:15] It’s part of the business. Yeah. Yeah. Dan Weiskopf [00:26:18] So you actually got really lucky, maybe smart on attracting a lot of athletes to be involved with your platform. Nice jacket, by the way. I guess my question is twofold. One, how did that become an emphasis for you? And do you know any actors are going to be involved as well? Steve Ehrlich [00:26:42] How I got involved is I’m just—I’m a huge sports fan. I grew up my whole life in New York, so I’m a diehard New York sports fan. But I love—I mean, just overall, I love sports. So I had the opportunity to meet a couple. The first one actually was I got introduced to Matt Barkley. And I know Matt’s been on your tank on Fridays. Yeah, I mean, that’s a great guy to sign with the Tennessee Titans. Good. Like, I’m coming down to visit you man in Nashville, because I love Nashville. And I got introduced to him early, in early ‘18. And so Matt and I just got on the phone and we spoke for like three hours just to Crypto and he’s one of my favorite people because he’s so knowledgeable there. Then after that, we got introduced to Stephen Biscotti of the A’s, same thing. Brilliant guy plays out for the A’s, Stanford grad, really, really smart guy. And so we just started expanding that. And so now we have quite a bit more. We will have more in the near future. We’ll have some musicians, we’ll have some actors, more professional athletes. And we have tons of them that are using our platform today. Obviously from privacy, I can’t say. But you can go look who’s following us on Twitter and you can see that. And following Voyager on Twitter, there’s so many that are using our platform. And they have, I speak to them quite often. They have my email, my text, and we just exchange ideas like how can we get more into locker rooms and talk to people about that as well? Because it’s an important aspect. You know, those guys are influencers, so they help the business. But at the same time, they’re really curious about how to—how they can use it, how it’s going to help their lives. So it’s exciting. It’s fun. I’m a big sports fan, so, and I love watching movies, love listening to bands. So it’s exciting for me to meet these people. But what I’ve also found out is they’re all really smart and I’m learning from them because they have taken a different look at it for me and really enjoy almost all those conversations. Dan Weiskopf [00:28:54] Yeah. So we’re now coming to the—mostly of the end of the show. So I always have wild card questions. So looking out like five years from now, right? What is the one thing that investors in the blockchain are not paying attention to today? Steve Ehrlich [00:29:16] Yeah, I think what I look at, I think, is the blockchain itself will, and I know there’s still doubts about it, but it will change the entire financial service system. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind, from what I see, whether it’s now mortgages reported on it, and there’s some pretty good companies out there that are doing some of that, trying to do mortgages and home equities on the blockchain. But five years out with blockchain, all of a sudden we’re going to wake up one day, it’s like the Internet, we woke up one day and we went from the dial up, you know, with all the noise and all of a sudden we had an efficient Internet. That’s what’s going to happen on the blockchain. I keep saying, it’s going to be, you’re going to wake up one day and no one’s going to tell you. But it just, you know, things switched in the back offices and we’re using the blockchain and you don’t even know it. And that’s what, to me, and I know what financial services are right for that because of simple things like clearing stock trades that are T +2 and there’s fights about going to trade eight plus one. Should it be immediate? I don’t see a reason why. And so one day we’re all going to wake up and we’re going to see the real impact of all this. And I think it’s five years, maybe slightly longer. Dan Weiskopf [00:30:29] So then the second wildcard question is, and you can’t use financial services as the answer, right? What industries are going to be most impacted by blockchian, excluding financial services? Steve Ehrlich [00:30:43] I’ve been in this industry twenty seven years. So, look, I, I think one really big thing that should be impacted by the blockchain and is a great fintech opportunity, and it’d be my next business, is, and it’s really morbid to think about, is the, you know, if you’ve ever been in a position where a loved one has passed away, especially a parent or an in-law, so forth, and trying to settle a stage and doing things that way, you know, blockchain and, you know, financial technology should help that. It’s nearly a full time job when those things happen and you’re already depressed because of a death. But now you’re even more so because you’re handling all these things in your 15 accounts here and there’s no way to kind of aggregate it. So I think fintech and blockchain perspective, it’s not financial services, it’s kind of life planning. I think we’re going to change. That’s where a lot of this is going to change because it’s really hard to do those things. And the person that passed away is like have fun, go enjoy that stuff, take care of it. But I think that’s where I really see a lot of opportunity. Dan Weiskopf [00:31:57] Don’t be thinking about your next business, OK? You’re not going anywhere. We won’t let you! Steve Ehrlich [00:32:02] I’m not going anywhere any time soon. I love what I do. Maybe I’ll just have to get someone to start my business. I mean, like I said when we started, I love what I do. This is the most fun I’ve had in—I started work in 1987. So in 34 years, this is the most fun I’ve ever had. I love the people I work with. I truly enjoy—a lot of people in my position don’t love speaking to investors, but I love speaking to investors. I love speaking to customers. I just think it’s we have this opportunity and you pointing it out, like where’s blockchain going and all of that, we have an opportunity that’s kind of a once in a lifetime to make these changes, maybe twice now, because the first time with the Internet. But, so we really have—and that’s what makes it so much fun. I just I’m not going anywhere. I, I can see myself here for, you know I’m late 50s, mid 50s, I could see myself another ten years doing this. Dan Weiskopf [00:32:56] OK, OK. Well I mean if you want to start selling cemeteries on the blockchain, that’s possible. So Steve, thanks very much for spending the time with me. I really appreciate it. I look forward to watching your company grow and expand and pivot and execute and you know, your team’s done a great job block and tackling for the shareholders. Thank them all for me as well. Steve Ehrlich [00:33:24] Well, thank you, I mean, again, we get a lot of insight from investors and customers and you know, guys like you’ve been around and give me some good insight what you’re hearing and seeing, because you guys see a lot of different things really makes us matter what we do. So I appreciate all the insights I get from guys like you. Dan Weiskopf [00:33:43] Be safe. See you next time. For more news, information, and strategy, visit the Crypto Channel .